epitaphic
Aug 20, 08:07 AM
Not every professional is going to need more than 4 cores let alone be willing to pay for it. I think the more processors, the more specialized the computer is going to become.
This is precisely the transition we've been seeing for some time, becoming more and more apparent every 6 months. Computers are no longer general purpose machines. It's already happened to consumers: machines today are way more than what's needed for web and email. For prosumers, its just about right, for gamers, you can never have enough single core + GPU power.
I think its fair to say to that the Mac Pro is in a way too specialized already. If you look at it's server RAM for example, which group of professionals benefits from its strengths? How many professionals will actually be able to get close to using all four cores during their normal workflow?
The way i see it, there are about 8 mainstream lines of professionals:
- 3D Artists
- Coders
- Graphic Designers
- IT
- Multimedia Artists
- Musicians
- Photographers
- Video Editors
Who can fully utilize 4 cores right now? I'd say possibly 3D Artists, Musicians(quad G5 only), and IT.
Sure everyone else will probably get a 15% kick in performance in some apps but for the most part, 4 core Mac Pro is not going to make your apps run any faster (it does give the machine more headroom for ample multitasking though). Of course at the moment there is only a 4 core Mac Pro so it's a bit academic to discuss the fact that a 2 core Mac Pro would be just as productive and much more cost effective. However, as most of you probably already know, there are good chances of an 8 core Mac Pro in January.
Sidenote: This sort of update (new machine in August, new machine following January) is not new. It happened in 2002-2003 resulting in the top of the line machine introduced in August to drop 40% in price in January.
So the interesting thing to speculate now is, if most of us have a hard time utilizing a quad to its full potential, what would an 8 core do for you? I know its not cost effective for apple at the moment, but in the future I suspect we'll be seeing 4-8 lines of professional macs.
This is precisely the transition we've been seeing for some time, becoming more and more apparent every 6 months. Computers are no longer general purpose machines. It's already happened to consumers: machines today are way more than what's needed for web and email. For prosumers, its just about right, for gamers, you can never have enough single core + GPU power.
I think its fair to say to that the Mac Pro is in a way too specialized already. If you look at it's server RAM for example, which group of professionals benefits from its strengths? How many professionals will actually be able to get close to using all four cores during their normal workflow?
The way i see it, there are about 8 mainstream lines of professionals:
- 3D Artists
- Coders
- Graphic Designers
- IT
- Multimedia Artists
- Musicians
- Photographers
- Video Editors
Who can fully utilize 4 cores right now? I'd say possibly 3D Artists, Musicians(quad G5 only), and IT.
Sure everyone else will probably get a 15% kick in performance in some apps but for the most part, 4 core Mac Pro is not going to make your apps run any faster (it does give the machine more headroom for ample multitasking though). Of course at the moment there is only a 4 core Mac Pro so it's a bit academic to discuss the fact that a 2 core Mac Pro would be just as productive and much more cost effective. However, as most of you probably already know, there are good chances of an 8 core Mac Pro in January.
Sidenote: This sort of update (new machine in August, new machine following January) is not new. It happened in 2002-2003 resulting in the top of the line machine introduced in August to drop 40% in price in January.
So the interesting thing to speculate now is, if most of us have a hard time utilizing a quad to its full potential, what would an 8 core do for you? I know its not cost effective for apple at the moment, but in the future I suspect we'll be seeing 4-8 lines of professional macs.
afrowq
Apr 12, 03:08 PM
I'd say 25% of the current user base would be a lot.
I'd say that is a subjective number that you pulled out of thin air. But that's fine, cause it's your opinion. But it is no more valid than my assessment.
I'd say that is a subjective number that you pulled out of thin air. But that's fine, cause it's your opinion. But it is no more valid than my assessment.
cyberdogl2
Aug 27, 06:27 PM
Fair enough, and I won't argue any more about it. I can't think of anything more tedious than a debate about whether a joke is funny or not...:)
Which, to me, is pretty funny.
Which, to me, is pretty funny.
63dot
Aug 18, 09:04 AM
Untill the cooling-solution starts to leak fluids, that is ;)?
i will also chime in on this one and say it's not likely to happen
many years before the G5 was liquid cooled, amd tried liquid cooling with some of their mobile processors and found the idea was not practical for reasons not disclosed and, at that time, dropped the project
later on, amd, like others, simply resorted to better designed, cooler chips and that solved overheating
i will also chime in on this one and say it's not likely to happen
many years before the G5 was liquid cooled, amd tried liquid cooling with some of their mobile processors and found the idea was not practical for reasons not disclosed and, at that time, dropped the project
later on, amd, like others, simply resorted to better designed, cooler chips and that solved overheating
FF_productions
Jul 15, 12:41 AM
Exactly - this is one of the reasons I'm glad Apple is going with a minimum RAM configuration. I'd much rather buy RAM from a reputable 3rd party dealer than have to succumb myself to Apple's significant premiums. Always buy 3rd party, never from Apple. :cool:
Still, it's ridiculous that Apple's Top-Of-The-Line machines don't come STANDARD with 1 gig of ram. I can guarantee they will when they come out next month. If the MacBook Pro's can come with 1 gig of ram standard, the Mac Pro's will too. I cannot wait to see this new Mac Pro, it's new design, it's new everything. I'm getting that countdown widget...
Ok, I just got it
http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/developer/wwdc2006countdown.html
Still, it's ridiculous that Apple's Top-Of-The-Line machines don't come STANDARD with 1 gig of ram. I can guarantee they will when they come out next month. If the MacBook Pro's can come with 1 gig of ram standard, the Mac Pro's will too. I cannot wait to see this new Mac Pro, it's new design, it's new everything. I'm getting that countdown widget...
Ok, I just got it
http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/developer/wwdc2006countdown.html
polyesterlester
Aug 7, 03:55 PM
From the Xcode 3.0 (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/xcode.html) page:
"Project Snapshots
"Record the state of your project anytime, and restore it instantly. Experiment with new features without spending time or brain cells committing them to a source control system. Like saving a game in Civilization 4, Xcode 3.0 lets you go back in time without repercussions. If only reality worked this way at the Pentagon..."
I love you, Apple.
"Project Snapshots
"Record the state of your project anytime, and restore it instantly. Experiment with new features without spending time or brain cells committing them to a source control system. Like saving a game in Civilization 4, Xcode 3.0 lets you go back in time without repercussions. If only reality worked this way at the Pentagon..."
I love you, Apple.
chasemac
Aug 7, 05:46 PM
can't believe only 8 people voted for 64bit, its the most profound change here.... all others you can achieve with some 3rd party softwares.
Same here. To me it is one of the most significant upgrades of all of them.
Same here. To me it is one of the most significant upgrades of all of them.
ccrandall77
Aug 11, 03:40 PM
Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.
And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
I don't need to travel to know that >99% mobile phone penetration is complete BS. Are you trying to say that EVERYONE in Europe has a cell phone?
Well using the Dr's stat, GSM is 81% of the market. A good chunk of the remaining 19% is CDMA. So roughly 1/5th of the market, with much of that market in affluent areas, uses CDMA. I stand by my statement that it's a significant market that Apple would be foolish to pass on.
And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.
I don't need to travel to know that >99% mobile phone penetration is complete BS. Are you trying to say that EVERYONE in Europe has a cell phone?
Well using the Dr's stat, GSM is 81% of the market. A good chunk of the remaining 19% is CDMA. So roughly 1/5th of the market, with much of that market in affluent areas, uses CDMA. I stand by my statement that it's a significant market that Apple would be foolish to pass on.
daneoni
Aug 26, 05:38 AM
Might as well add my story. My 2005 PB (non Hi-Res) i bought in august 05 started forcefully going to sleep. The genius almost gave me hell saying he couldnt prove anything and that i should re-install...yeah that'll happen.
Luckily every record of the sleeps could be found in console logs so i simply save them and marched down there the next day. This time he had no choice but to take it in. After supposedly getting fixed i picked up the laptop,got home, powered it up and lo and behold it slept in like 10 seconds and had a wonky trackpad. Took it back and they replaced the MLB again this time giving me a 1.67 MLB (i had a 1.5GHz).
I got home and things were fine for a while until the powerbook this time refused to go to sleep talk about irony. Off to the Apple store again, took it in again this time for about a week and a half (this is the only machine i have) and when it came back "fixed" i had been given my original MLB (my clock speed was now back to 1.5GHz, my serial number was back to what it was after not having one due to replacements) and there were scratches and crud on the casing. In essence i wasted my time completely.
I immidiately took it home and sold it as is, i just couldn't be bothered to complain anymore.
Hmmm support could be better but it could also be worse.
PS i'm in the UK.
Luckily every record of the sleeps could be found in console logs so i simply save them and marched down there the next day. This time he had no choice but to take it in. After supposedly getting fixed i picked up the laptop,got home, powered it up and lo and behold it slept in like 10 seconds and had a wonky trackpad. Took it back and they replaced the MLB again this time giving me a 1.67 MLB (i had a 1.5GHz).
I got home and things were fine for a while until the powerbook this time refused to go to sleep talk about irony. Off to the Apple store again, took it in again this time for about a week and a half (this is the only machine i have) and when it came back "fixed" i had been given my original MLB (my clock speed was now back to 1.5GHz, my serial number was back to what it was after not having one due to replacements) and there were scratches and crud on the casing. In essence i wasted my time completely.
I immidiately took it home and sold it as is, i just couldn't be bothered to complain anymore.
Hmmm support could be better but it could also be worse.
PS i'm in the UK.
shamino
Jul 14, 05:26 PM
Kind of odd/funny how we seem to be going backwards in processor speeds. Instead of 3.6 GHz Pentiums, we are looking at 2.x GHz Intel Cores. It would be interesting to see how well a single Core processor matches up to PowerPC, or a Pentium, or AMD.
It just means that Intel has finally publicly recognized the validity of the MHz Myth.
Raw clock speed is meaningless. You can get better performance at a slower clock speed if you can increase parallelism. This includes features like superscalar architecture (where multiple instructions are executed per clock), deep pipelining, hyperthreading, SIMD instructions, and multi-core chips.
However, I am finding one of my predicitions finally happen...it appears that a ceiling has been currently met on how fast the current line of processors can go, and now we are relying on multiple cores/processors to distribute work, instead of relying on just one fast chip.
That's a part of the equation, but not all of it.
Higher clock speeds are possible, but it's not worth the effort. Pumping up the clock speed creates serious problems in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation. Leaving the clock speed lower, but increasing parallelism will also boost performance, and keeps the power curve down at manageable levels.
It's worth noting that Intel has shipped P4-series chips at 3.4GHz. But the new chips (Woodcrest and Conroe) aren't being sold at speeds above 3GHz.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
Pay attention. The answer is "sooner than you think".
There have already been technology briefings from Intel that talk about 4-core chips in early and 32-core chips by 2010. Similar offerings are expected from AMD.
And the Xeon-MP series processors (which will, of course, eventually get all this tech) are designed with 8-way SMP in mind. A theoretical Xeon-MP based on this 32-core tech would produce a system with 256 cores. Of course, it is doubtful that anything other than a large server would be able to take proper advantage of this, so I wouldn't ever expect to find one on a desktop.
(FWIW, Intel is looking to Sun as a rival here. Sun's latest chip - the UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) - currently ships in an 8-core configuration, with each core capable of running four threads at a time, and only consuming 72W of power. Even at 1.2GHz - the top speed they're currently shipping at - this makes for a very nice server.)
It just means that Intel has finally publicly recognized the validity of the MHz Myth.
Raw clock speed is meaningless. You can get better performance at a slower clock speed if you can increase parallelism. This includes features like superscalar architecture (where multiple instructions are executed per clock), deep pipelining, hyperthreading, SIMD instructions, and multi-core chips.
However, I am finding one of my predicitions finally happen...it appears that a ceiling has been currently met on how fast the current line of processors can go, and now we are relying on multiple cores/processors to distribute work, instead of relying on just one fast chip.
That's a part of the equation, but not all of it.
Higher clock speeds are possible, but it's not worth the effort. Pumping up the clock speed creates serious problems in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation. Leaving the clock speed lower, but increasing parallelism will also boost performance, and keeps the power curve down at manageable levels.
It's worth noting that Intel has shipped P4-series chips at 3.4GHz. But the new chips (Woodcrest and Conroe) aren't being sold at speeds above 3GHz.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
Pay attention. The answer is "sooner than you think".
There have already been technology briefings from Intel that talk about 4-core chips in early and 32-core chips by 2010. Similar offerings are expected from AMD.
And the Xeon-MP series processors (which will, of course, eventually get all this tech) are designed with 8-way SMP in mind. A theoretical Xeon-MP based on this 32-core tech would produce a system with 256 cores. Of course, it is doubtful that anything other than a large server would be able to take proper advantage of this, so I wouldn't ever expect to find one on a desktop.
(FWIW, Intel is looking to Sun as a rival here. Sun's latest chip - the UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) - currently ships in an 8-core configuration, with each core capable of running four threads at a time, and only consuming 72W of power. Even at 1.2GHz - the top speed they're currently shipping at - this makes for a very nice server.)
Platform
Sep 13, 07:25 AM
WOW...I have one core....now 8 cores...:eek:
Butters
Aug 11, 10:29 AM
I don't really want an iphone, I'd rather have an ipod with ichat/isight tbh
gus6464
Mar 22, 08:20 PM
If you meant the HTC View for Sprint (aka the Flyer), then I don't think it needs Honeycomb right away to become popular.
It'll start with Gingerbread, Sense and the Scribe pen technology, which is plenty to play and be useful with.
I'm looking forward to trying its ability to allow typed, drawn, and voice memos during the day, saved into Evernote. Latest demo video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVK-OTnxnp0). HTC is going out on a limb here, but I think it's a good one.
The Flyer is a good concept but I think holding it back is Sense and not necessarily Gingerbread. Sense has become too clunky and sluggish for it's own good and at the end of the day is it really needed? HTC should just concentrate on making apps that take advantage of the scribe pen than building everything around Sense. Android has evolved enough that there is no need for Sense, Motoblur, Touchwiz anymore. Make it optional not mandatory. I have seen way too many apps not work correctly just because of the damn UI layer that the manufacturer is running. It would be very easy to have all those UI's available on the app market and allow the consumer to make a choice. Differentiate your product by the hardware and build quality, and not some clunky, useless UI overlay.
It'll start with Gingerbread, Sense and the Scribe pen technology, which is plenty to play and be useful with.
I'm looking forward to trying its ability to allow typed, drawn, and voice memos during the day, saved into Evernote. Latest demo video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVK-OTnxnp0). HTC is going out on a limb here, but I think it's a good one.
The Flyer is a good concept but I think holding it back is Sense and not necessarily Gingerbread. Sense has become too clunky and sluggish for it's own good and at the end of the day is it really needed? HTC should just concentrate on making apps that take advantage of the scribe pen than building everything around Sense. Android has evolved enough that there is no need for Sense, Motoblur, Touchwiz anymore. Make it optional not mandatory. I have seen way too many apps not work correctly just because of the damn UI layer that the manufacturer is running. It would be very easy to have all those UI's available on the app market and allow the consumer to make a choice. Differentiate your product by the hardware and build quality, and not some clunky, useless UI overlay.
4God
Jul 14, 03:56 PM
This means that the 2.7 GHz G5 of a year ago or more would still be a high for CPU speeds for the PowerMac/MacPro line. We already have dual dual 2.5 GHz G5 a year ago. An increase to 2.66 GHz means that either 2008 or 2009 we will see the promised 3 GHz PowerMac/MacPro.
Any bets on which year it will be?
Bill the TaxMan
I think we'll see more cores per cpu before we see 3GHz. IMHO, 4,8 or more cores at 2.66 is far better than 1 or 2 cores at 3GHz.
Any bets on which year it will be?
Bill the TaxMan
I think we'll see more cores per cpu before we see 3GHz. IMHO, 4,8 or more cores at 2.66 is far better than 1 or 2 cores at 3GHz.
mwswami
Jul 21, 01:31 PM
I strongly disagree. I could use 16 cores right now for notihng more than simple consumer electronics video compression routines. There will be a Mac Pro with 8 cores this Winter 2007.
Hey Multimedia, just curious, I wonder what's your current (something you want to use for the next 1-2 years) idea of the ultimate machine wrt number of Cores, Memory, Storage, etc. And, how much are you willing to pay for it?
Hey Multimedia, just curious, I wonder what's your current (something you want to use for the next 1-2 years) idea of the ultimate machine wrt number of Cores, Memory, Storage, etc. And, how much are you willing to pay for it?
alphaod
Dec 4, 05:08 PM
I've been doing B-spec the whole time. Just set a race up and then go do other stuff. Come back it's done; repeat. :p
Tanglewood
Aug 7, 03:46 PM
I guess I would be underwhelmed if I had mistaken WWDC for Macworld or something, and expected a bunch of major new product announcements.
I agree. Release Mac Pro and just enough of Leopard to keep us going until January. Besides whats the point in Apple showing its entire hand with a release window 7-9 months out?
I do like that they'll be updating Mail. Having templates will be handy for what I use the program for.
I agree. Release Mac Pro and just enough of Leopard to keep us going until January. Besides whats the point in Apple showing its entire hand with a release window 7-9 months out?
I do like that they'll be updating Mail. Having templates will be handy for what I use the program for.
skunk
Mar 4, 05:15 PM
Woof. Those guys are hot. :cool:Misattributed.
macfan881
Aug 5, 06:32 PM
im really hoping if there is a new ipod coming out they anounce it monday cause my b-day is in a week and ill might be able to get a new one and if they anounce a full screen ipod and can aford it ill get that or hope they drop the price in the curent ipods like maybe 199 for 30 gig and 299 60?;)
damienvfx
Jul 28, 03:01 AM
I am waiting until the new MBP is released with merom. I don't care if it's now or in January.
My question is: What's the fastest way to get the new MBP into my hands? Is ordering it online after it's announcement the fastest, or going to an apple store?
I live within 3 stores. So I can play the call and place one on hold bit.
My question is: What's the fastest way to get the new MBP into my hands? Is ordering it online after it's announcement the fastest, or going to an apple store?
I live within 3 stores. So I can play the call and place one on hold bit.
wolfie37
Apr 25, 01:48 PM
I haven't read this lawsuit, so I don't know if they're claiming things that aren't true... but I really do not like the fact that the iPhone has a breadcrumbs database of my travels for the last 3 years!
This type of thing should not happen without users' knowledge... and it was. Or else this file would not be news!
It isn't news, it has been discussed before, its isn't without the user's knowledge you are asked about location services. Also the database is on your iPhone, not being given to or sent to anyone, so it's your information, you know where you have been so it isn't "news".
Your travels are also tracked by mobile phones companies as your phone shakes hands with their masts on your travels, this happens to all phones not just smart phones. Why aren't these people sueing them?? Oh that's right, doesn't give you as much self-publicity.
This type of thing should not happen without users' knowledge... and it was. Or else this file would not be news!
It isn't news, it has been discussed before, its isn't without the user's knowledge you are asked about location services. Also the database is on your iPhone, not being given to or sent to anyone, so it's your information, you know where you have been so it isn't "news".
Your travels are also tracked by mobile phones companies as your phone shakes hands with their masts on your travels, this happens to all phones not just smart phones. Why aren't these people sueing them?? Oh that's right, doesn't give you as much self-publicity.
Nuck81
Nov 25, 02:46 PM
Need For Speed: Shift looks better than GT5. Especially the in car Cockpit cam. The shadows of GT5 are a fickering jaggy especially in car. I'm hoping they can patch all that out. Not to mention the AI of GT5 is horrible. The cars just stay on the driving line like those old time cars at the amusement park. There is no regard to racing or competition. In Shift, the AI is trying to beat you. They bump you they pass you, they get too aggressive and make mistakes, causing wrecks and spin outs. There is no better console racer in that regard. GT5 AI only makes contact if you are in their line, not that they are actually trying to "beat" you.
The Driving feels good though after I switched the brake/gas to the triggers and off the awkward right stick. GT5 would be better to be marketing as a Driving/Time Trial game. Not a Racing/Competition game. I'll put my time into GT5. and it will be a blast trying to beat my times on the tracks with the different cars, but I won't play the game looking to win races against competition. For that, I'm looking forward to Shift 2 already...
GT5 is a 8.5 for me.
The Driving feels good though after I switched the brake/gas to the triggers and off the awkward right stick. GT5 would be better to be marketing as a Driving/Time Trial game. Not a Racing/Competition game. I'll put my time into GT5. and it will be a blast trying to beat my times on the tracks with the different cars, but I won't play the game looking to win races against competition. For that, I'm looking forward to Shift 2 already...
GT5 is a 8.5 for me.
moochermaulucci
Apr 6, 05:05 PM
Or...
It could be considered being close minded and afraid of new things.
Just saying, you know?
Yes, it could...
...and then again, maybe not. Brilliant deduction. Great, now we're no further along than we were three posts ago.
It could be considered being close minded and afraid of new things.
Just saying, you know?
Yes, it could...
...and then again, maybe not. Brilliant deduction. Great, now we're no further along than we were three posts ago.
MadeTheSwitch
Apr 27, 01:18 PM
Most people here already know that I'm against the stimulus and against "gay" rights.
My first question about a potential presidential candidate is, How morally virtuous is he? For me to vote for a candidate, he needs to be conservative fiscally and socially, especially socially.
It's neither moral nor virtuous to be against the rights of your fellow citizens. Just sayin'
One has to wonder why conservatives get so wrapped up in social issues when there are so many other things on the plate. Things like abortion and gays will never go away. It's just as stupid to obsess over them as it is to obsess over Obama's birth certificate. Let's fix the economy and put people back to work. Those are the real problems. Anything else is a distraction.
My first question about a potential presidential candidate is, How morally virtuous is he? For me to vote for a candidate, he needs to be conservative fiscally and socially, especially socially.
It's neither moral nor virtuous to be against the rights of your fellow citizens. Just sayin'
One has to wonder why conservatives get so wrapped up in social issues when there are so many other things on the plate. Things like abortion and gays will never go away. It's just as stupid to obsess over them as it is to obsess over Obama's birth certificate. Let's fix the economy and put people back to work. Those are the real problems. Anything else is a distraction.
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